How to Navigate Menopause while Pursuing Athletic Dreams and Family Bonds with Michelle Wells

In this episode of "Spirit of an Athlete," hosted by Amanda Smith, the guest is Michelle Wells, a nutrition and life coach, and endurance athlete. Michelle specializes in helping women over 40 navigate menopause, nutrition, and balancing sports with motherhood and other responsibilities. She shares her personal experiences with menopause, including symptoms like hot flashes and joint pain, which led her to develop tailored nutrition and self-care strategies. Michelle emphasizes the importance of understanding hormonal changes, maintaining an active lifestyle, and the role of community support in empowering women during this transitional phase.

Timestamps 

• [00:01:15] Michelle Wells' motivation for supporting women over 40, particularly those experiencing perimenopausal symptoms.
• [00:03:45] Personal experiences with menopause, including symptoms like hot flashes, joint pain, and fatigue.
• [00:07:30] Research and development of nutrition and self-care strategies tailored for women in this demographic.
• [00:12:10] The importance of balancing athleticism with motherhood and other responsibilities.
• [00:16:25] Empowerment through education about bodily changes and informed choices regarding nutrition and exercise.
• [00:20:50] The significance of movement and finding enjoyable forms of exercise for overall well-being.
• [00:25:15] The role of community and support among women navigating menopause.
• [00:29:40] The impact of hormonal changes on nutrition and the need for dietary adjustments during menopause.
• [00:34:05] The importance of personalized nutrition and gradual changes rather than restrictive diets.
• [00:38:30] Strategies for managing family life and athletic training schedules effectively.

Please connect with Michelle here: 

Email: Info@michellewells.co.uk

Website: Michellewells.co.uk

Instagram: @wells_hormonehealthmw

Watch Gutsy Chick Podcast on YouTube!

Check out more from Amanda:
Website: Body Whisper Healing
Instagram: @Amanda.G.Smith
Facebook: Body Whisper Healing
Pinterest: AmandaGSmithBWH
LinkedIn: Amanda (Ritchie) Smith

Take the Gutsy Chick Quiz to find out how your athletic mindset might be holding you back from healing your chronic health issue: https://gutsychickquiz.com

Transcript

0:19

Back to another episode of spirit of an athlete. I'm your host, Amanda Smith, and on this episode I interviewed Michelle Wells. She is a nutrition coach, life coach, and an endurance athlete who's helping women in the 40 plus range with menopause, nutrition, and balancing their sports, motherhood and all the other hats that we happen to wear as women in our 40s. I truly hope that you enjoy this episode with Michelle. Thanks for listening. Michelle Wells thank you so much for being on spirit of an athlete with me and really sharing what you do and how you do it and why you do it. Which really brings us to the very first question. Why do you work with 40 something year old women? Well, that is thank you, first of all, for having me. And that is just a loaded question because my journey has been phenomenal. Um, so why why did I end up doing what I do, I suppose? Um, so, um, for me, um, training, training, um, as an athlete, um, running, um, cross training as being quite predominant in my life for a number of reasons. And, um, I run I'm a run leader, and I also run in a group, um, community. And, um, my background is, like, very much my husband does triathlons, I do running and, you know, various nutrition and stuff. And why do I work with them? Because first of all, it started there. Some of the women around the age, the Perimenopausal age were like really, really struggling with their own training. And they came to me and they were like, you seem to be clued up in the whole nutrition. Can you help me out? So I was the general right then and I started doing that. I seem to be quite good of it. But then what really happened to me and really pivoted me was I'm a phenomenally busy woman. Most of us are, right. Uh, and I literally was trying to sort out stuff on a Saturday, and I came over with this massive grey hot flush, but it felt like I was drunk and I was like, I can't even reach for the bloody glass of wine yet, you know? And I was trying to breathe it through, and my kids are looking at me going, what are you doing? Get a grip. And I was like, I really don't know. And I thought, okay, fine, it passed. And then I thought. Get a grip, Michel. You know what's going on? You've you've eaten, right? You're exercising right? You know, you ticking the boxes. And then it was, what, 3 or 4 days later, it just out the out the blue. Right. I felt like a cricket bat had hit me and I was at like work and my corporate role, as well as what I do coaching outside. And I just I was like, I can't do this anymore. And I literally then crumbled. Um, I had fatigue, I had so joints, I had anxiety everywhere. I was just done. And maybe me, because I'm a bit of a geek. If I don't understand something, my survival method is if I don't understand that, I'll go and learn about it. And, um, I kind of like did a bit of research and some somebody sort of said, Michelle, you're in the menopause. And I was like, well, not really sure. I don't have time to like, think about this. And my, my history was right. Well, I had my children, and then I went an implant. And then my husband and I decided that, you know, it was time that I was coming off the implant. But I didn't want another kid. God, no two was enough. Um, and therefore, I sort of said, could you go and snip. And then I came off the implant, and I had nothing for a whole year. Nothing. Just nothing. I thought, okay, fine. So I went and said, can I have the blood test? Um, and it confirmed that I was in the menopause, and I was like, jeez. And and that really then started me to delve into the more research base. What does that actually mean, particularly for an athlete, right. Because the pain, the soul joins. But on top of all of that, Perimenopausal starts at least ten years, you know, beforehand. And I was like, oh, okay, I've got a lot of these symptoms that I just thought was me. Um, and they weren't. And I was like, this is intense. Okay, this is really intense. And at the same time, I'm still training. And I was like, right, okay, okay, let's let's focus on the nutrition because the nutrition is my speciality, my bag. Right. So I then started to look at and at the same time my son was diagnosed with pyro disorder and I was like trying to research that. And I was like like, geez, right? So it ended up that I did a lot of research on Mediterranean diets, a lot of research on the Japanese and the Chinese culture, and they had less symptoms. So I thought, because I clearly don't want to just always pump myself with drugs or supplements, okay. Because, you know, it's not the best thing in the world. Um, so I then started looking with that and I thought, this is intense. Okay. There are so much out there, and there's also so little out there. And I thought, you know, something my friend said to me, Michelle, you seem to be good at this. Like you seem to educate. You want to serve? Have you thought this might be a person in between all of that? Because obviously, my traumatic childhood and everything else, I've been doing lots of different personal development. I'm a qualified life coach, and I thought, oh, you might be onto something here. And actually, I've sat down and I go, well, everybody's here for a purpose. And what really excites me, and it kept coming back over my 40 odd years of, well, actually, it's looking at your nutrition, your lifestyle, your exercise. You know, don't get me wrong, I do like a cake and I do like my wine, but it's, you know, you've got to kind of get into this. And then I was like, but I also like my running. I certainly don't want to get old. You, you read people that are 100 that are still running marathons and I'm like, okay, I like the variety of the training that I do, but I can't, I can't just keep doing my training routine. I'm still doing in my 30s because it's not suitable. So it then came from nutrition to then a bit more about movement. So then a bit about well, actually there are some days where I just get out of bed and I'm like, I'm knackered. Okay, so what do you do instead? What's your self-care? Because then it's the self-care. Because if you don't do the self-care, you can't perform. And then there's also this manifestation, which I did do, um, an Amsterdam marathon, um, a couple of years ago. And I knew what time I wanted to get. So I started manifesting this, and and people like my husband blessed me, just looks at me as if I'm going gaga and I'm like, no, no, no. I started three months ago. Okay? Right. And now I'm going to get this time. And I kept on this mantra. I didn't see any of Amsterdam apart from people's ankles, because I just kept on going with my mantra of, I'm going to get three hours, 47 minutes and 49 seconds. And I later. She came just a minute over there. But, you know, it's that sort of thing. So everything I was doing for me, I had other people that were asking me about it from my community. And then I was like, oh, there must be tons of other people. But I don't just work with athletes. Um, because you have got other women that, um, are busy moms, they feel like they've lost their identity. They have no idea where they're starting. Majority of my, um, clients seem to be very high in sugar, very sugar dependent. And it's working with them to go. Actually, you don't have to be like me, okay? What I do can be applied to anybody in any shape or form. You do not have to run a marathon. You do not have to run an ultra. You do not have to run. Okay. But what you do need to do is some sort of movement, Okay and something you enjoy. Because if you don't enjoy, it doesn't become a sustainable habit. What you do need to do is go and you've only have one body. So accept your bloody body, okay? Is there to serve you? And instead of stuffing it with rubbish, why don't you occasionally stuff it with rubbish and make it as a tree, but make sure that you're feeding it to help with some of those menopausal symptoms, help with feeling engaged with your children or your work or your career, and really like taking it and looking at you holistically. Let's have let me break down the research, okay? Because otherwise you just go I was overwhelmed and I need social media or media to say everything. Media is all about doomscrolling, or you've got to look at this size and say that, you know, some of them will buy dresses that are two sizes down and it's like, no, no, no, no, no. Embrace this. Okay? There is so much you can do to help with your body, but there is also other stuff that you can't. So set where you are now. And then through some of that, it was like we worked on relationships with themselves, relationships with, um, their partners or their children or with other people within their organization for career wise. And that's really where I started, just because I didn't want to stop doing what I enjoy doing. And it hit me and I was like, no, no, no, no, we don't we don't, we don't do and just lie down and roll over and go, okay, let's take it. Let's go and find out what we can do to make sure this works for you. Found out what my true purpose is. And now I support lots of people. Okay, there's a lot to unpack here. Michelle. Thank you for sharing all of that. That was there's a lot to unpack here. Okay. When, uh, on the gutsy chick quiz, I would instantaneously go, you're a bruiser. But then as as we go through what you've been talking about, I'm like, oh, no, she's also a brain star because you love that research piece. And it's interesting to see how you flow through those two archetypes in the Gutsy Chick quiz that I created. So let's unpack that. When you started getting your menopause perimenopause symptoms, were you still on some form of birth control? Yes. Okay. That's interesting. So you had the birth control. You had that hot flash, that one hot flash that just blew you over essentially. Yeah. So at the time of having the hot flash, I wasn't on birth control. But all the other perimenopausal symptoms, like vaginal dryness, you know, loss of libido. You know that those were the things that were prevailing. That was the majority. And I just thought it was me and the sore joints. I just thought it was me. And then when the rest of it came, obviously more intensified when I came off that because I wanted, you know, just I wanted to clear body. No, I. Completely understand that, uh, this audience knows we tend toward holistic practices. We don't want to to lean on and be a in the Western medicine rigamarole. And supplementation is okay as long as we're using it to get to a holistic state. So I love that fact that that you fit that bill perfectly. Sore joints wasn't enough because as a runner, as someone who is an endurance athlete, you probably experienced sore joints here and there. Am I right? Yeah. I think for me, I, I started running a to lose weight back in my 20s. Okay. Because I was larger than it. I've been through a traumatic experiences and you know, I just wanted to be anybody but the person I was, all right? And I started to run to lose weight. And then I found I enjoyed it. And then it came to the point of, um, I fell pregnant after it, trying for many years. And I was like, I don't want to be a fat mom. So, you know, when you're like, okay. And I used to I kind of like cross-training as well. So I used to take like Harry, my eldest put him on the side. Um, after the first feed in the morning, I'd be swimming up and down while I was sleeping. It's great when you have a child because you feed them in the sleep, um, until they get older. And then it was is like then from that it was very much I was like, okay, I need this for my mental stability, okay. And then you're juggling. So it was very much I was like, I get up really early in the morning because my husband is more of a night person, so he trains in the night. So, you know, you've got to juggle between the two of you and the morning. I'd get up before the kids so I could have that time for me. So yeah, I had this door of joys and I had a few, um, injuries as well. Um, certainly with my back. Um, because I'm of a slim build, you've got that compounding. Um, so. And I have, um. And I still have because of it, um, this real sort of, like, hip, tight hip pain. And it does weigh down on you completely. So it isn't just it's knowing what I know now as you go into the menopause, you lose your lubrication. So hence your fascia gets tight. You get like the sore joints and sore joints is not just, oh, you've run too much, which is what it's dominantly. I was like, geez, you know, I used to be able to run five, six times a week and and, you know, not feel a thing. And now it's like it's just really hurts. Um, so it's trying to piece all of that together to go. I can't stop doing this because otherwise, literally, I probably would murder everybody around me, you know, because I need that time out. I just need to be able to clear my brain, then go right. What's the next role I'm playing? So you have the role that you are. So the person's in me, my personal identity. And yes, I do like pineapple on my pizza. Very good question. If you want to try and find out, if you want to find out the type of person you are, first of all, say what do you like and do you like pineapple and pizza? Have great debate. Um, so, so you kind of find out who you are, and then you've got to have some of that time. By the time I've then finished my training, even now and my kids are like teenagers, they've managed to kill themselves at bed, get themselves dressed, ready for school, and yes, I do pay them for chores. So go and empty the dishwasher. And by the way, I do work full time, so you do need to sort out your washing. But then I can come, mum. And in between I quickly become mum. Then I go and shower. I stick my makeup on, I go to become, you know, my corporate role or I become the coach or I become my podcaster role. And this is where I think it's really important, particularly for us women in menopause. You spend a lot of your time dedicated to your children, or you were doing five, six, seven different roles within the day, even for is five minutes and you're having switched brain. Okay. So you have not got time for sore joints. You have not got time to go. I can't be asking around. We're trying to work out what I need. I need to not like some sort of routine, you know? As in, I need to be able to serve my body. You know, I've got to get so-and-so there. I've got to have enough energy. I haven't got time to, like, just sit down and take a nap in the afternoon. And this is where I think, you know, as an athlete. Yeah, I've added that intensity because I like to train. But equally the same principles that apply to us as athletes applies to any person, um, male, female or other, you know, whichever binary that you choose, the same principles apply. There is, you know, the concept that males go through the menopause. Um, but you could be in your 20s and you're just not feeding your body to serve you, to serve your lifestyle. Right? So it wasn't just your joints that made you go, something's wrong here. Because. So I think the assumption with women that are doing sports or just existing general existence, when we get sore joints, it's like, oh, I'm, I'm getting. Old. And we succumb to that. We're just like, yes, okay, that's that's life now. And for you, what you realized is that was perimenopause. That was one of the signs of what was going on, all the dryness that you mentioned. Definitely something to highlight for the listeners if. If you're experiencing any of those things, dig deeper into perimenopause. Yeah. Yeah. You agree. Okay. You you brought up your podcast. I want to highlight that right now because it has everything to do with what we're talking about here. What's the name of your podcast? Absolutely. It's menopausal women. Schafer. Nutritional health and wellness. Yes. I absolutely love doing it. Oh my God, I love doing it. I don't know why. That's I love doing this because I get to meet amazing people like you who are helping women in the world to figure out how to navigate their bodies and their athletics at the same time. That's that's why I'm here. Okay, so you mentioned your husband is also an athlete. How do you guys balance your schedule of being both of you being athletes as well as having two teenagers? So let's just backtrack here. Right to we both were when we first met, completely tied. Um, he's younger than me, so it wasn't like the whole fireworks And drunken kiss. And then I was like, I need some food. So we went to food and then found out we started to have things in common. So he used to do ice climbing. Yes. Um, we climb, we climbed mountains, and my kids have done all three peaks in the UK. Um, in the UK and yes, so we've got. So your biggest peak, which was probably in America, you would go is um, Ben Nevis. So and then there's um, the smallest one is Scafell Pike, but it's quite technical. And then you've got Snowdon. And Snowdon is probably one that you might recognise because it's a UTB. There's a UTB event, um, that goes for it. And so we kind of have that in common. He did a bit more running, and I was a bit of a gym to start off with, you know, and then we decided we'd try for children, which was difficult. But one of the things that came up is I was like, when we first got together, we were like, okay, we need to set some boundaries. There are certain things that I do and. First of all, he was like, well, I always go to the pub with my mates on a Saturday and I was like, fine, because I'm quite happy in my own company, love, okay? And equally I can go out and see mine and I do not mind going to the cinema on my own. Okay, right, I that's me. I'm quite happy in my own skin. And then obviously kids were trying for kids and I was like, I am not going to be one of these mummies, okay, that gives up my whole entire life and lose my identity completely. And he's like, well, I'm not giving up my enjoyment. They will just have to do so. Imagine this, right? My husband does triathlons, which is a swim bike brand. Okay, both my kids within four weeks of being born have attended a wedding. So I've literally given birth with sleep deprived, and I've got kids under my arms and we're going to a wedding, right? So we then get to write. He's doing an event and Harry is, what, six months old, right? It says we need her. Oh, no. We get up early. I've got picnic breakfast in my backpack for me. Right. Okay. And he's there. Okay. We'll go see daddy first, and then we'll go off and we'll play in the park and what have you when he's on his bike, because clearly you don't see them in the bike. And then we'll go back for the run. They've been with us every step of the way. Right, right. And so you then have to work out I'm a morning person. He's a night person. So if you are thinking about being, you know, starting. When's your best time? I can even see you just putting it into when we go on holiday. If we're driving. I'll do the first stint. Okay? And then don't talk to me sort of after lunch and Silvana snooze because he will take in and do sort of like the more night, afternoon and night if it's a long journey. So. And I don't think twice of. Right. Okay, well, it's picnic breakfast because I'm not paying some of the extortionate prices of those four of us, you know, and it's like 40 quid's worth of cooked breakfast. And I'm having my nice little amuse me, and it's sort of like natural yogurt. And they're tucking into like the big fryer, which is great. I do do some of that. But, um, yeah, they make up for what I don't eat. And so we have to kind of juggle it. And then when it comes training, I think probably this year. So this year is intense for us because Andrew is actually doing the full Ironman a Tenby one. And that's again a sort of like worldwide renowned Tenby Ironman. He's done triathlons but never done a full Ironman. So to put this into context, he's got Swim to Mars, got a mile transition, 112 mile bike ride, and then he's got to get off and run a marathon. Um, so that's intense training. He's training on a Saturday and Sunday for virtually five hours. So I am literally I'm a single mum. But what we did was we go, right, this is what your dad wants to do, okay? Now that they're teenagers, they've been they run themselves. They can run up to probably five miles. My eldest has done his race 45 minutes flat, very hilly race. Um, you know, my youngest is more of a sprinter. He kind of likes the park runs, which is A5K. Um, they swim, they bike. I mean, we did last year on a holiday, we did a 30 mile bike ride. Um, obviously it stops and then cost me an arm and a leg in cake and everything else. Feed them. But you just go. It just depends. They very much outdoorsy. We climb. So it's not as if they're not used to it. But this is quite intense for us. And Andrew is very tired now for me. and because of my work, um, when we first got together, we were starting to look at, like, what running events was I doing running events? Was he doing, um, even when we did the same event, I would train on Saturday. He would train on a Sunday. Um, and even now, because my kids are older and I can leave them in bed festering for a bit, I get up very early on the Saturday morning and start my training, and he's only out for a short time by the time I've got back. He then goes back out and then on Sunday is my rest day and I go to the kids, right, fill your boots. I've got to do the prep for the rest of the night, the week and start preparing that. So it's all of this, but I think then what it is for me is that we started to look at nutrition for us individuals now, and nutrition is quite, um, an interesting subject because everybody is unique. And what we found with both of us is that I couldn't have passed through the day before unless I was doing trail running, because trail running and road running a very, very different streams. So we would have the pasta dish on the Friday, then a high protein on a Saturday. And then obviously you've got your race breakfast or your race breakfast. Now for me, I can get up on my stretching before an event. And, um, any event is more important, particularly now that I'm older so I can have like a race breakfast. And about an hour later I'll be ready to go and do what I'm doing. The different speeds that my husband can't do that. So we have to then scheduling him to go, okay, you're going to

have to get up at 4: 26:02

00 in the morning to get your breakfast. So we have to prepare that. So it's kind of like when we decide and and it's very much he does one thing one year and I'll do something the other year like next year in 2025, I'm thinking about doing an ultra and I did. My first ultra was 50 K. This one would be 100 K. Same concept as him. He is. It's he will be out for 13 hours between 10 and 13 hours for his event. Same thing. The one thing I won't do is, um, I actually supported another ultra athlete. She needed a crew, um, because she was doing a hundred miles. I don't know what that is in K, and that meant she had to go overnight. Um, and so it was really, really hot for her. She had to do the first, I think, 50 miles on her own. And then her support crew could, um, kick in and I take in her

from about 4: 27:04

00 in the afternoon until 11:00 at night. And then I handed her over to my husband, who cruder through the rest. Now, if you're thinking this woman is running 100 miles. Okay. She's dehydrated. She's tired. She is walking some of it. She's running some of it. She's all over the place. She hasn't not got all her senses. Okay? Particularly if she's not fueling. So you as a support crew have to go through the night. And I said I said to my husband, I said I'd much rather do a two day event and actually enjoy it than actually be that entirely broken. So when you become an athlete, you have to think about what is it now? For me, very much. I like the running. I started off doing ten KS, you know, I started off then doing marathons. I fell in love with, um, trail running. Um, and just in June, June this year, I did, um, June 2024, I did, um, Giants head marathon. Absolutely. The only reason I did it was because I got a medal with a willy in it that spins, so that was great. Um, But it was it's very, very different. So for us, we have to think about the complexity, what his boundaries are, what my boundaries. But equally, because of where I am, I have also been trying to get what it would be like for him. I'm not a great swimmer. I actually got on and not a race wetsuit. I got on just a standard bog beach wetsuit. I swam in a lake which was freezing compared to what you might have out in America. 45 minutes suffered slightly hypothermia. I had to kind of redo that just so that I could experience what he is experiencing, so that I know what I need to fuel him with. Because when you're doing this Ironman or any event, you've got to work out what your fuelling strategy is. He will not be able to his race breakfast is going to fuel him through his swim. But then the only time I'm going to be able to feed him will be on the bike. What does that look like? And then when he gets off that bike, he will go to jails and jails as a whole. Different subjects. Um, when I'm doing trail running, I will eat real, real food because trail running is a bit more of all you run about. Then you walk back, you look at the hill and it's like this and you're going, I'm going to walk that, because that's going to be quicker to walk up than run. So then you stuff your face with the cheese and Marmite sandwich or, you know, an homemade energy bowl with gels. I use gels for Amsterdam. But then again, it's research. One, I don't do caffeine gels because so many people have done. I like some caffeine through using them too. They have to be taken slowly and they have to be taken with water to get into your bloodstream. Three I already have food intolerances and as you go through the menopause, you will find that you may develop intolerances because of the hormone changes, you may find that you become gluten intolerant. You. Everything you did in your 20s, you cannot do in menopause. You cannot. Just because your body has changed, a whole dynamics has changed. And you need to understand that, particularly if you are in your 40s, you are an athlete. You need to really get to grips with this. And therefore, if you're using gels, I go for a sort of more of a vegan brand. And again with protein, whey protein is actually quite processed. And because one of the dimensions is your body will find it harder to break down ultra processed food. And some of the vegan brand stuff is ultra processed. And obviously there's a reason why they make it ultra processed. So you really need to think about you as your body, how best to feed it to survive. So with the both of us, we've got your morning. I'm I'm I'm morning. Your night. But then we've got to look at the intensity scheduling in the time that he's going to need to recover and be able to connect with his children. Now, for me, as a mother, I have gone. I could probably run faster than what I do, but I don't want to break in vain. I do not have the luxury to go over that line and then just lie on the couch for the rest of the bloody day. I've got to shower, refuel, get in a bar, crack open the champagne if it's a significant event. Okay? Plus also, then make sure that the kid's school uniforms are in that they're fed. Um, I do remember one. It was only a London ten K, and we've done a picnic breakfast. Got there and I went off and I said to Andrew, I said, oh, I've packed some cakes for the boys. Make sure to have that. I literally got over the line

about about 11: 32:09

00 in the morning and the kids were like, it's lunchtime yet I was over. I was like, have you actually fed them? Oh no, I forgot. And they didn't really ask. Oh no. And so as a mum and a training athlete and all the other roles you do and you kind of go, you don't have the luxury to just go, I've just done an event, crack on everybody and that's where you have to then go, what's the different mindset? Now, I know he does not do sleep deprivation either and I know he'll do the event. And that's him. Walked out for the rest of the like the bloody week right. Yep. So again you is you just have to think about when you're you're training and what's your boundaries. What's the requirement. Now he knows that for me I do have a training schedule during the week. Yes, it does vary. Um, but that's my non-negotiable. Really? Sorry. And because you'll see the horrible Michelle, not the nice Michelle. Um, and then he has his non-negotiables. And then when you come to do an event, we then have to be collective to set the boundaries and what that means. Um, and, you know, I've asked him to do things, and then I threw my toys that prime at the weekend and, uh, just ended up going to the tip myself and clearing out this and setting that and tidying up the garden just because he's too tired. But yeah, I said that. All right. I want. To highlight a couple of things that you mentioned about. Menopause. In in that answer. So our hormones are shifting, which means the way that we feed ourselves has to be tested, experimented with and potentially changed because we could develop food allergies or certain things like this. I experienced this actually, um, just after getting my cycle. So just after puberty? Yeah, I became gluten intolerant. Didn't know it until much later, but that was a thing that I had to deal with then. And this happens every time we go through a major hormone shift. So not just menopause, but pregnancy, puberty. So for my listeners who have kids, daughters who are going through puberty, you've got to start to look at their food and test it out and see, okay, is this something that she can still tolerate? There's a whole process for that. Do you take your people through a process of testing different foods to find out if they have allergies, or do you suggest they go take a test? How do you handle that with your clients? So my first and one stop shop okay, is you need to give me a food diary. The amount of people that don't actually know what they're eating. And when I say food diary, I want to know what you're eating, the time you're eating. Okay. And how does it make you feel? Yes. All right. Because if people are saying to me, um, and equally like, what are they doing? Um, are they dieting because they. What's their goal? Well, we both know diets do not work, and they certainly do not work in menopause. Okay. You certain diets, I mean, feeding ourselves is technically a diet. But then when we drop into how media has shifted our mentality around what diet is, we're thinking, you know, keto diets and we're thinking about the Mediterranean diet and the myriad of diets that are out there. So yes, I completely agree. Dieting during menopause is just a bad idea. Your body's working hard enough. Exactly. And what a lot of people and a lot of women are. Cage is they don't like cups. And I'm like, no, no, no no, no. You need some form of carbs, but good carbs, because even though you're not having a cycle, your body still needs that. And even when you're in a cycle, you do need some form of carbs because it's kickstarting the processes and what I do the first one stop shop, give me a Fujairah. And that's actually stops a lot of people because they're going, oh, I am really dependent on sugar plus. So say my energy levels drop then. And certainly like with some of my athletes that I've coached, I'm just going, well, you're not you're doing a session in the evening, but you've hardly in anything during the day. And then all you're doing is going home and having a bowl of cereal, and then you expect to be okay the following day. Oh, and they're like, oh. So it's like, no, you feel for when you were training. So in that scenario I'm going it's a high protein breakfast okay. That it starts giving you the energy levels is a bigger meal. Lunch time. Yes. Have snacks, have a snack before you come out. And then because of the way the menopausal body works, you don't want a high like really intense feed afterwards. So post Jack on toast, an omelette, beans on toast, a fat cheese salad with a bit of lumi. You know, there are ways and means that you can actually have that. And then you go and then kick in again with a high protein breakfast because your body is still recovering from the night before. And so that's where I first start, okay. Because it's working out. And you go, if you are eating something with gluten in and you are doubled up in pain or you feel sick, well then let's explore that. Yeah, let's explore the different types of things and all you have in what we would class as you. Good fats. You know, is it a balanced diet? Is it a rainbow of colors? Because there's like, I can't now eat broccoli. Yeah. Because it really pains me. And I used to be able to eat broccoli. So you have to think about how you're cooking your vegetables. What's beneficial I eat more butternut now because that's carbs and minerals and stuff. And again, you got to think about the minerals that are going into your body because that all serves purposes. It's interesting to take people through that education and help them understand, okay, this is what a healthy carb is. This is what. And I like to break it down into complex carbs and simple carbs and then starchy carbs. Because for some reason when we get drier in menopause, we we tend to get dry through the throat and it's hard to actually digest in the upper part of our digestive system, some of those foods and starches tend to be the ones that people have an issue with, because they already tend toward that chalky or drier state. Oh. So many things. So many things. Healthy fats versus unhealthy fats. Unhealthy fats is anything that's processed it. But then healthy fats, how much of those should we be consuming, especially going into menopause? Have you noticed that you need more healthy fats now that you're in that state of menopause? Because those are the things that lubricate you? Exactly. Absolutely. 100%. Um, I had a bit of an issue. I still have a slight issue with avocados. The only reason being. Did you overdo. It is. No, no. Um, I'm reformed from disordered eating. And the reason being is, um, all I saw as a kid, and bearing in mind that my mom was born 1948. So just out of the war type thing is she very much would stuff her face. Okay. And then the following day is day to say to me, being quite impressionable, uh, now I need to go on a diet and then would starve herself. And one of the things that she used to do would be avocados with prunes, and I, I liked it, but then that stuck with me that she would always she was quite not. She was not on the slim side, but not perhaps only until her later years on the clinically obese side. And that's stuck with me. And I was like, I can't do avocados, I can't do avocados. And everybody said, do, and I got to menopause. Michelle, you're going to have to do avocados. And I was like, I really can't, I really can't, I really can't. And then actually I was like, Michelle, come on. Do you normally do? You go and research? And I did. And you can have an avocado day for six months and you will find they made no difference to your weight. Um, but you need those avocados. You need the olive oils because literally, despite drinking three, four liters of water a day, they ain't gonna cut it. Okay. And equally, if you're an athlete finding that you're losing that hydration, you're then sweating. So actually don't just rely on electrolytes from your food. I now have an electrolyte drink every day. And that has also increased my performance. But also my husband's because I then when I really thing you need to have a lecture right now and he's he's a couple of years younger than me, but he's in his 40s. He's like actually yeah, this is really working. And this is where there is so much to being in the menopause that it is overwhelming. Overwhelming if you're training. It's intensified if you're training. And it's equally just overwhelming for, you know, your average woman, okay, that is an athlete. And this is where I just go. My purpose is to go and learn this. Package it up into simple, bite sized pieces for people to say, I'm not asking you to eat the whole elephant, okay? I'm asking you to make one baby step. Just one step. And if that is you, just change your breakfast to add a bit more high protein in it. Let's just do that for the next few months. See how it goes. If it just means that you are sitting and having a bath for ten minutes, or you've taken yourself out to a coffee shop and just being on your own so you do not feel overwhelmed or even digital detox. Okay, stop doing scrolling. Just one baby step in order to be better than you were yesterday. And this goes back to for us as athletes, what is it? And we're very much control freaks, I have to say. What's the reason why we we do what we do is because we want to know what our body is capable of. We want to achieve those goals. And also for many of us, it's a control mechanism because actually there's too much noise in the rest of the world. Okay, that sometimes you do get overwhelmed, full stop. And, you know, it could be a personal goal that you want to be running a marathon a hundred. But with athletes, we've all got our own reason for doing it. You then get the complexity of a life challenge and that could be a divorce. It could be the menopause, you know, could be anything. You will find that your control mechanism is your your your, your sport. Which is a version of self-care. Which is a version of self-care. And so then actually what we do is, okay, let's break it down, because if you like me, I was like, I cannot stop what I'm doing. Okay? So I've got to make this work for me. I cannot stop it. Don't ask me to stop it. It's, you know, it's like, oh my God, I'm going to change. And then I'm all, you know, I can take a break for you, or I can do some other different form and yoga being one of the better ones to because you can do still strengthening and training. You can do that. Yoga Yin yoga really helps with the fascia, you know. So you've got to think about ways to serve you and what you are going through. And all I do is I go, right, let's start off with what, just one baby step. Don't let's get overwhelmed. Because you. Rome wasn't built in a day. One step leads to another step. And eventually you run a marathon. I love that. Michelle, where can people find you on the internet so that they can follow you? Listen to your podcast. All the good things about what you're sharing. For women that are going through perimenopause, menopause and post menopause. Really? All right. So breathe. Here we go. So my website is, um Michelle Wells. Co.Uk where you can find out a bit more about me, my trauma. Um, and the reason why I ended up doing what I'm doing. Some of my blog posts are on there. Um, you can also find me for the podcast. I'm on Spotify, Apple, and I have a YouTube channel. Um, so all of that, um, you can also find me on Instagram, um, and follow me there and then equally just reach out to me and via info at Michelle Wells. Co.Uk. Excellent. All of that will be in the show notes so you guys can go find Michelle. Michelle, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and sharing your experience and how you got to where you are today. Thank you for having me. Thanks for listening to spirit of an athlete podcast. If you're struggling with your own gut issues and want more direction, you can get an initial body scan from Amanda at Body Whisper Healing. Com. In 20 minutes, you can find out what's wrong. Get clarity. Map the path forward. You get on track to get back in your game. If this episode hits the spot, please let us know by rating, reviewing, and sharing it with a friend. Subscribe now to hear more inspiring stories from other female college athletes who overcame their health issues. Want more Amanda? 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