Understanding the Role of Trauma in Eating Habits: A Deep Dive with Sharon Donato

In this episode of "Spirit of an Athlete," host Amanda Smith talks with Sharon Donato, a former competitive gymnast who transitioned to certified athletic trainer and integrative nutrition health coaching. Sharon shares her journey, highlighting her struggles with food and trauma, and how these experiences shaped her career. The discussion emphasizes the importance of understanding nutrition, the impact of food on mental and physical health, and helping women reconnect with their bodies and intuition. Sharon also introduces the concept of brain spotting, a therapeutic technique for processing trauma that shows up in the eyes, aiming to foster healthier relationships with food.

In this Episode: 

[00:00:05] Sharon Donato's journey from competitive gymnast to integrative nutrition health coach.

[00:02:15] The impact of food on mental and physical health.

[00:05:30] The relationship between trauma and eating habits.

[00:08:45] The importance of understanding nutrition and its effects on well-being.

[00:12:00] The concept of food as fuel and its role in health.

[00:15:20] The significance of listening to one's body and intuition regarding food choices.

[00:18:35] Common misconceptions about food and nutrition, particularly among women.

[00:22:10] The role of rituals and habits in eating behaviors.

[00:25:45] The 80/20 rule in dietary choices and promoting flexibility.

[00:29:00] Introduction to brain spotting as a therapeutic technique for processing trauma related to food and body image.

Please connect with Sharon  here: 

website: https://sharondonato.thementalwellbeingcompany.com

Social Media: Facebook Private Group: Sharon Donato Wellness Unlocked https://www.facebook.com/groups/260658516388064/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shdonato_wellness_unlocked/

Promo code: 15% off with mention of: Spirit of an Athlete Podcast

shdonato@gmail.com

Watch Spirit of an Athlete on YouTube!

Check out more from Amanda:
Website: Body Whisper Healing
Instagram: @Amanda.G.Smith
Facebook: Body Whisper Healing
Pinterest: AmandaGSmithBWH
LinkedIn: Amanda (Ritchie) Smith

Take the Gutsy Chick Quiz to find out how your athletic mindset might be holding you back from healing your chronic health issue: https://gutsychickquiz.com

Transcript

0:19

Welcome back to another episode of spirit of an athlete. I'm your host, Amanda Smith, and on this episode, I interviewed Sharon Donato, who started off as a competitive gymnast. Dropped in there that she happened to do a marathon once and then became a personal trainer. And now she's an integrative health new integrative nutrition health coach. That's a mouthful. Now, if we just said it was a trauma informed, integrative nutrition health coach, that would really be a mouthful. But really what you need to know is on this episode, we talk about food and how food can be traumatizing. And we talk about how Sharon works with her clients, who are women experiencing habits that they need to unwind and want to change their life through diet. We also end the episode talking about brain spotting, which I'm going to have her back on the podcast so we can go deeper into that topic. So stick around till the end so you can hear what brain spotting is. Sharon Donato, thank you so unbelievably much for being on spirit of an athlete with me and sharing your journey from gymnast to health coach. So I'm glad to be here. Yay! Okay, so you were a competitive gymnast. How old were you when you started? Uh, I started late, um, for, I'd say, you know, for high level gymnastics. I was not an Olympic hopeful, but I was the kind of hard working, um, you know, maybe a lot of hard work. Not as much talent. Kind of a gymnast. I started when I was nine and I competed until I was 18. I retired at the ripe age of 18. Why did you retire? Um. Burned out, getting injured. I was I was on the cusp of doing it in college. That kind of had always been the plan. And sometime around the middle of my senior year, I just recognized I. I didn't want to hang four years of my education on, you know, going to a school based on, on a sport, um, with the fear that if I got hurt, you know, you know, back then you weren't really protected with, you know, scholarships and such things. So I just didn't I didn't want to hang my education on it. And I had a school close to home that didn't have gymnastics. So it, you know, kind of became a no brainer. Okay. We see this a lot in sports. I see this a lot in sports where you get to that point where it's it's make or break. At time. We try and decide, okay, am I going to continue on and what is what's the end game? Did you see yourself at nine years old? Ten years old going into the Olympics and doing gymnastics and Olympics. No, I was never I was never at that level. Um, you know, I but I could have I could have had a solid college career. Um, you know, and I think when you're young, you know, you think you're going to get a scholarship. You know, a lot of people, you know, and parents included, think that that's, you know, the Holy Grail and that that it's that it's easy to do. Um, you know, I did have some opportunity, you know, from the financial side with gymnastics, but, um, I was I was just getting more focused on what I wanted to do with my life. And I had a school in my backyard that had, you know, kind of what I wanted to do rather than picking a school because of my sport. Did they have club gymnastics? Could you have done club? They did not. Um, that we were really and it's interesting because a lot of the schools that I was looking at, um, and they were more like, um, D2 or, you know, Ivies like that level, um, they were all phasing out their gymnastics at that point. Two so a couple of the places that were potentially on my list that I could have competed, I probably would have been there when they when they got rid of their programs. You know, none of it's a guarantee. Uh, no. And even still, it's not a guarantee. I mean, I could go into my story, but that's another podcast episode. Right? What happened between 18 and deciding no more gymnastics to now becoming a health coach. What spurred you to become the health coach? Um, well, I went into athletic training. Um, my initial goal was physical therapy. Um, but at that time, you know, that was right around the time when physical therapy became a master's degree. So I had to pick an undergrad and I fell into athletic training, and I absolutely loved it. Um, I had worked with, you know, a couple of different sports medicine professionals as an as an athlete who really impressed me with the way they helped me with such simple things that just were not common knowledge. Um, so it really, you know, I kind of got led to athletic training and it's it's been a really long journey to get to health coaching, um, just to be able to help people with this. You know, to me, I don't understand how people don't know how the body works. Um, so one of the coolest things I've been able to do with my own kids is just really instill in them how their body works, how you can enhance your performance, the things that interfere with your performance. And I think if I had known a lot of those things when I was competing, um, you know, even things around, around food and nutrition that I would have been so much more successful and healthier and, and probably would have enjoyed it a whole lot more, too, if I'm being honest. I get that, I definitely get that. I feel like I didn't, I understood my body to a certain extent. All the way through my college experience. And if I would have known the things that I know now. I would have been such a better athlete. I would have been so much wealth, so much better fed and so much stronger. And that would have absolutely. Both of those things would have bolstered my game. So I totally understand where you're coming from when you say that. What is one thing that if you could go back in time to your 18 year old self, what is one thing that you know now that you wish you would have known then? Oh my gosh. Um, one thing one. Just one quick one. The food is fuel. That food is fuel. It really is as simple as that. Um, you know, I work with a lot of women, um, you know, into their 30s, 40s, 50s who still have this relationship with food, whether that came from athletics or just came from, you know, life or their, you know, um, their home life, society, all the different things that we, you know, pick up along the way. But I, I think that has been the, the most freeing thing for me, um, to recognize that food is just fuel. How do most of your clients see food? Um, something they have to control? Um, something that has control of them. Um, I don't think they in general, when I first start working with people, recognize how. Yes. It's just fuel, but how powerful it is to make you feel better or worse. It's it's kind of our original medicine. And when we treat it with that type of reverence and we but also recognize that it is truly just fuel, it goes in and it goes out, but it also builds us and supports all of our systems. And I think, um, I think it goes back to that, what I was saying a few minutes ago that most people just don't they don't know how their body works. Yeah. It's it's it's sad but true. And, you know, in, in high school and in elementary school and junior high school and in that formal education, they're trying to teach us. But how much of it are we actually absorbing and do we really care? Then I feel like there needs to be this. Like when you get into mid to late 20s, this education around all your body parts, that would be so great. But I feel like we're also still learning about the woman's body in science. Absolutely, absolutely. The men's body, we're still learning new things there too. But the the amount of growth that we need to have in terms of the woman's body being studied in science is lacking compared to men's in major ways. Yeah, even things like sleep, you know, everyone goes with that. There's we you know, a lot of the information we have is so outdated. Um, and I think people get very married to what they've been told, you know, eight hours of sleep, eight glasses of water that neither of those is is probably accurate for most people. Um, so, you know, it's it's also learning that to listen to your body, to listen to your intuition, what feels good to you when you. I always I thought there was something wrong with me because I needed nine hours of sleep. Like I truly thought, oh my gosh, what's wrong with me? Why do I need so much sleep? Well, the reality is eight hours of sleep is based on men. It is not based on women, and it's certainly not based on women of reproductive age or, you know, in that time frame or when, you know, when they're menstruating and they need an extra hour of sleep. We're not taught any of that. Right. It's actually so it was funny. I heard this not too long ago. It's based off of men with sleep apnea. Oh, gosh. Yeah. They need eight hours. And what they're finding now is women start to get studied more, is that women really need 9 to 10 hours of sleep. Right. And the eight cups of water, that's that. I feel like they pulled that out of their butt. And then the other statistic that I love to talk about is, uh, the 10,000 steps a day. Yes. That was based off of the the pedometers ability to get to 10,000. Oh, well, only there was no science behind that. So we're literally pulling numbers out of our butt, and people are subscribing to them and saying, yes, that's that's that's the thing I need. Well, right. And frequently when you go to a doctor with an issue, you know, that's the information that they're potentially pulling from maybe. And one of the things I love about health coaching is helping people, women in particular, to get back to their intuition of what feels right to me. Okay. All right. How do you teach a woman intuition? Oh. Um. I do a lot of somatic work in getting back into your body. And, you know, when you're when you're having a conversation with someone and they're telling you maybe something they're struggling with, you know, maybe it's they didn't eat so great this week and they kind of start to, you know, ramp up about how frustrated they are and how, you know, this was their intention. And but this happened and this, you know, ran late. And then I didn't have time to make lunch for the next day. And they kind of and to kind of stop them in their tracks and say, where do you feel that? Where are you feeling that in your body? What are you feeling like? Well, my stomach kind of feels achy and I, you know, my throat feels tight and my hands are tingling and you just get them present in the moment. But a lot of times that intuition, intuition piece is what do you what do you think you could have done differently? Or if you could do it again? What? What comes to mind? What you know, what solutions are there? Because I think so much is that habit and pattern, you know, um, so when people have goals around, say it's around their nutrition or their eating, but one slip up and and they go all the way off, it's like they throw their hands up because maybe if they can't do it perfectly, then they've failed. So it's kind of getting you know, it may not be specifically intuition, but it's getting them back to the present and where they're feeling that and what feels right and what doesn't feel right. And then intuition starts to kind of raise its hand. And, and then you see it and you hear it more instead of this just kind of plowing through the way, the way that we do. So what I've been taught and you nailed it, is embodiment comes first, the body comes first. If we can, if we can sit in our body and feel what's going on in our body. Then it becomes easier to tap into that higher knowledge, higher self if we will. But that starts to come easier. Uh, one of the things that I like to teach is kinesiology. So you stick your arm out, you ask a question, and then it stays up, or it doesn't. But I do it. The mom version where we snap because, you know, moms generally have something else in one arm. They're cooking, they're doing something with one hand. So they've got one hand free and they can snap. And if the fingers stay together, for me, this is how I've programmed it. If they stay together, it's true. And if they slip, it's false. But then you can also do numbers and stuff with it. So it's you're involving the body in the understanding. And this is, this is, uh, one of the areas that I like to involve the body in getting them to go. Okay. Am I really hungry right now? And ask it? Just the simple question. Just get the question out right and and then get the body involved. Now we can tap in. How does my stomach feel? How does my chest feel. How you know. And if I need to tap into kinesiology. Yeah, that's that's my tool for intuition. So I love. That. That's great. Started with the body. Yeah. It's it's interrupting pattern. You know that that split second can interrupt a pattern. And then you know a lot of the other the piece is replacing a pattern with a pattern. I often tell people you can't you can't just break a habit. You've got to replace a habit with a healthier habit. And and then then you start to rewire the brain, um, you know, into into something a new pattern or a new way of, you know, whatever that is. I love that. Yes. That pattern interrupt. Yeah. So necessary. We do really think like computer sometimes. Yeah. When it comes to food, how often are you seeing trauma as part of the equation? Um. I'd say it's. I don't want to say all the time. A lot of the time. A lot of the time, I mean, food really becomes, um, for a lot of people, it becomes the way that they, um, kind of, um, I can think of the word, like, make themselves feel better. You know, we've we've been taught that we've been taught that from a really early age, even, you know, something like dessert gets taken away when a child misbehaves, the first thing you take away is dessert. Um, you know, we have all of this attachment and meaning attached to to food. And, you know, there's good food and there bad food. Well, there's not, you know, it's more like choices. You're making a choice between this food or you're making a choice between that. Food is one of them, you know, better nutritional value or of course, um, but, you know, there's, there's, there's not a good food and a bad food. And I think we, we do that from a very young age. I've had a lot of people tell me that, um, I think of the generation of cleaning the plate. Yes. Um, I had a client once who? She. She felt like if she didn't eat all the food on her plate, she was doing something wrong, even as an adult. And, you know, those are the type of, um, you know, patterns that are. They're just embedded. We're not thinking about it. It's just it's in there and it's in your nervous system, and it's just what we how we react and what we do in that moment. Um, without even thinking about it. Oh, it's just one more bite, and then we're stuffing a bite because you can't throw away food, which I don't like to throw away food either. But frequently you there's, you know, you're at the situation and someone's like, oh, I don't want the rest of this. Should I take it with me? I'll. I'll just eat it. I feel like that's a generational thing. So we had the Silent Generation who basically put on the boomer generation. You have to clean your plate because they lived in black when it came to that, in their in their growing up and their time frame. And now we've got the boomers who are teaching the millennials okay. Or the excuse me, there's any ills in the millennials okay. You've got to clean your plate but have a little awareness around it. Maybe take a doggy bag home. Okay. Right. And then what do we do with that doggy bag. It sits in our fridge and then eventually we just chuck it in the garbage anyways, right. It's interesting to see how how it shows up in good ways and bad ways. And I love that you brought up food is neither good nor bad. It's does it serve us or doesn't it serve us right? That's really what it boils down to. It's not that an Oreo cookie is bad, it's that it might not serve us in that moment. Right. And and, you know, if you're if you have certain goals around your eating and you choose to eat that. What are you telling? What's the story you're telling yourself after it happens? Oh, yeah. You know, it's that, um, you know, the shame that that there's a lot of shame attached to food for people. Yeah, really. Particularly women. I kind of always go back to women. I can't necessarily speak for man. For men. I'm not a man. But, um, I, you know, I know that some of these things carry over, but I do really think it's it's more particularly applies to women, the shame game when it comes to that. Mhm. Yeah. Well it's, it's also the dopamine hit. Right. So we're going to dessert after dinner every single night because we're looking for a dopamine hit. We're looking for something to make us feel better after a long day. Yeah. And then the guilt the shame the grief happens afterward. And how do you how do you help people who are navigating that? What's the first step that you help them with Um. I think learning how to give yourself grace is huge. Um, when it comes to your goals, you know, that idea of perfection. And I see perfection as this kind of, like, protective part that, you know, a lot of women, um, carry. And I think recognizing that you're not going to do it perfectly. And when you fail to meet kind of your own expectation or standard of yourself that, okay, that happened. Now it's in the rear view and I'm not going to beat myself up about it for, you know, however long, um, you know, and I think getting people to understand that you're making choices like, these are just all choices, and you get to make the choice over and over and over again as to how you're going to approach food and what your relationship is going to be with food. Um, I also do some education around what our food supply is like and what that it's working against us in a lot of ways. You know, a to many ways, you know, I, I've told, um, you know, several people lately that the high fructose corn syrup is to process food as nicotine, as to cigarettes. And that sends off some real light bulb moments for people when they recognize that that is put in there to make me want more of it. Mhm. And when that's, that's kind of empowering. When you tell people like there is there is kind of something going on here that they want you to keep buying this kind of food and giving people hope that it's not suffering. When you stop eating foods that are highly processed or have a lot of unhealthy ingredients and and chemicals in them, you lose a taste for them. It doesn't. It doesn't taste as good as you remember it. Tasting when you have that like cheat and then you're just like, oh, that wasn't really worth it anymore. Um, so I think it's, I think assuring people that this isn't like you're not going to suffer. This isn't, you know, here to make you suffer and never have your, you know, quote, favorite foods. Well. I was just speaking with Kathy Curry about how when we take processed sugar out of our diet, you can taste it and, and know, okay, that there's something wrong with that that doesn't taste right. But it takes getting there and understanding like there's a different side to this, this world of sweets that people don't understand. Do you help them understand? Like there's different flavor profiles that you might fall into and categorize, help people categorize like that. Um. I guess I probably do intuitively. I hadn't really thought about it like that. But I do often ask people, you know, are you a salty snack or are you a sweet snack? Or, you know, what kind of things do you find yourself reaching for? Um, because. I think it's again, it's that like, knowledge is power, knowing, you know, which foods are kind of pulling you, um, as you're kind of, you know, the cheap foods or, you know, those, those certain flavors that are going to attract you more, um, that you just need to have some more awareness around. So I guess I probably do without really kind of outwardly doing that. I love that, yeah. Is it something sweet and crunchy? Is it something, uh, salty and crunchy? Is it something sweet and mushy? Yeah. The. Well, you know, it's wild too, because. So I had a, I had a chocolate ice cream addiction for, for quite some time. I, I ran a marathon in 2001 and I was, I was really losing a lot of weight because I was, I was training so hard and I didn't want I, you know, I was, I was tiny and I didn't want to lose more than I was losing, but I couldn't really pack on enough food. So I started eating chocolate ice cream every night with half and half, and I would mix it into it was Breyers, so at least it was kind of cool. Um, and I would, I would pour half and half in it and mix it into this, like, thick shake. And I kid you. And I did that for like, 20 years. Um, and I, I, um, I gave up dairy in general a few years ago, um, due to a thyroid issue, but, um, I didn't realize how that was affecting me, like, as I kind of got into, you know, perimenopause and menopause age and just that, that sugar at night. And, you know, it kind of goes back to, um, you know, food is medicine. And we we've got to give it that reverence kind of that, that what I eat is absolutely going to have an effect on how I feel. And some of, um, the things that I experienced is, I guess, symptoms, if you want to call it that, we're neck up. Um, it wasn't it wasn't like my stomach was upset from eating dairy. There was nothing like that. Um, but what made me think of that was when I gave up, so I used to mix it in a mug and that was my night time thing. After dinner, I had my chocolate ice cream in a mug, and when I gave that up, I kept the mug and I switched to tea, which was not the same, but it was something about holding my mug at night after, you know, we're watching TV. I've had dinner that that habit. And now I don't even really drink tea every night. But that that was that. There was a habit piece to that too. It wasn't just the chocolate ice cream, it was just this ritual of what I did at night. And a lot of people do that around, even around like alcohol, like wine. Yeah. There's so many women who, um, need that glass of wine at night. And it's the ritual, huh? And they don't even realize the negative impact it's having on them. Um, and for some reason, they just can't seem to break the ritual. They're not necessarily an alcoholic because they have four ounces of wine every night. But for whatever reason, even when they're are choosing not to do it, they end up with it in their hands. Yeah. Back to that education piece. Yeah. Teaching people about their bodies. If you don't have an off switch, you're probably an alcoholic, which means you have to have the alcohol all the time. But if you just have a habit, well that's different. I love that you. You eased your way out of it. Do you use that as a technique with your people. Using a way out of which thing? Out of. Habits? When when we notice, okay, this is a habit. Yeah, I, I that's part of the giving grace. That's part of taking your time. Like, you know, some of this is healing to, you know, there's healing that goes with, um, you know, when you start to kind of dig into root cause of, you know, why this is this way or why is your relationship with food this way, or you know, why you have this certain habit. And when you start to uncover those root causes, I think you have to be really gentle with yourself, because you can only heal at the pace that your body will allow you, and your nervous system will only recover at the pace it it wants safety, it's seeking comfort. It's seeking those things, even if those things aren't good for you. So, you know, it's it's going to go towards a, a bad habit that's familiar before it's going to go towards a good habit that's unfamiliar, because our system doesn't want to go into the unfamiliar. We don't know that that's safe. So I think, you know, it's that consciousness. It's getting people to really kind of be aware and to slow down and to think, um, but also to just, okay, it didn't work out today. So tomorrow I'm going to try again. And giving them that reassurance I think is so important, um, validating, you know, that they feel frustrated, but also like, okay, so we start again. Yeah. One of the things you and I talked about in the pre-interview was Pareto's law 80 over 20. How do you use 8020 with your clients? Gosh, I use 80 over 20 and everything for me. So do I. Yeah. Um, life. I think, um, it can be a little bit of a trap of good and bad. It can, it can, you know, shine the light on that a little bit, but it's more like, um, recognizing nobody really likes to be told what to do. We don't like. No, we don't even like to tell ourselves what to do when we start to say, I have to do this, or I, you know, I, I need to do that. Um, I think that 20 can start to become the negative piece or seen as a reward. Um, and I guess I just try to, to help people understand that that's the imperfection. You know, you don't you don't have to set up your meals for the week and say, well, 80% of this is this is, you know, my goal type of foods and this 20% I'm going to do over here, here and here. It's more like allowing for it, um, almost as stuff happens. And you know what? They had a they had a celebration at work and they had cupcakes and I had the cupcake, you know, and and it's fascinating because even when I do that for my own self, it's interesting to watch other people's reaction around it. Like they're almost like apologetic, like, oh, sorry, we have cupcakes. I'm like, it's all good. You're right. Each cupcake is you're not hurt my feelings, you know, like because because I really have been able to kind of just put that little space in there. It's not it's not bad. But if I want that cupcake, if that cupcake looks really good and I might have a cupcake, and that's part of my 20. You know. Yep. A Grace. I love that you you say that you give you give yourself grace. That's the the 8020 rule right there for me is finding that grace. Because if I don't do it 20% of the time, the other 80% of the time will help carry me through. Absolutely. And I always say our body is, you know, it is capable of tolerating the 20%. It's it can it can function just fine with those, you know, little choices that you're making for the cupcake or the ice cream or whatever that is. Um, it's it's when we start to go beyond that that our body starts to struggle and suffer. So, you know, really it's kind of just going back to that, you know, understanding how the body works and how it clears toxins and how, you know, foods that have a lot of preservatives and chemicals and junk, they're toxins. You would think it would be preserving us for death. Right? Right. But no. That's not how that works, unfortunately. And even that you can get more sensitive to them. You know, things that I used to um. You know, I have found as I've gotten older, I can't really tolerate any amount of alcohol anymore. Yeah. It just my body is like. That's poison. Don't do that. It makes me. It makes me very aware that I don't want to do that again. Um. And everybody's different, right? Some people, it doesn't. They don't seem to have that effect. I think I've gotten more sensitive to certain things as I've removed it, and then I just don't really want it. Yes, yes, that's that's how I feel with processed sugar. I've removed it for a long enough period of time now that when I do have it, I'm like, hmm, that's that's not the same with alcohol. As I get older, the the more I'm like, nah, that doesn't serve me even a little anymore. Whereas when I was in my 20s and, and early 30s, I was like, yeah, that serves me for now. And yeah, it's like riding roller coasters. Yeah. I used to. Love riding roller coasters. Now it's like, oh my gosh, don't don't put me on anything that spins. Right, right. Exactly. Thank you. Nervous system for aging. Yeah. Sharon, where can people find you on the internet? So, um, I have my website is, um, Sharon Donato at the mental wellbeing company. Com, um, Sharon Donato dot the mental wellbeing.com. Um, that is a franchise that I work with that I do some coaching through, but that's the best way to reach me. Um, there's a contact for discovery call there. Um, also, my my email Sharon Donato at gmail works as well. I'm on Facebook. I have, um, I have a private group on Facebook. Sharon Donato. Um. Wellness unlocked. Um, so that would be, you know, another good spot. What do you guys talk about on in your Facebook group? Yeah, it could be anything. It could be anything. Um, you know, I do quite a bit around, you know, nutrition, but also, um, you know, patterns and changing habits and, you know, just could be anything. Could be anything nice. I always say with athletic training as a background at athletic trainers are kind of a jack of all trades, master of none. And I sometimes tell people at this age I'm a master of a few things, but, but, but there's just so many. It's, you know, in that profession in particular, you you're it could be anything. It can it can literally be anything. You're kind of that first line of defense, um, for athletes. And then you, you know, you have your scope of care and then you, you know, help people to maybe find a direction from there if it's outside of your scope. Yep. Exactly. You're offering a 15% discount. What is that for? Um, if anybody wants to, to do some coaching with me. Um, you just mentioned that they, you know, heard the podcast and, you know, they can can get that 15% discount. I have a couple different programs, whether it's a six week every every other week or once a week for 12 weeks, um, or kind of my, you know, my coaching programs to work one on one. I also do, um, brain spotting, which that's a whole nother show in itself. But yes, it is, but that sounds. Yeah, like similar to eMDR if people don't know what it is, um, it helps you to, um, access points in your nervous system to rewire your nervous system, um, bypassing your thinking brain. So it's not counseling. You work. You work around areas and around trauma. You're not really working on a trauma. Um, so it's, you know, a lot of people say it's it's like eMDR on steroids. Um, but it's not like ripping the box the lid off of a box. You're not opening up trauma and and poking at it. You're you're just helping your nervous system process. through, um, and kind of push it out of your system. So it works great with, um, with patterns and, and trying to, to break patterns. Okay. We're definitely going to have another episode on that because that is that's worth a whole conversation. It's fascinating. It is, it is, it is. And we you know, I don't I don't discount therapy. Therapy is important. It is an absolutely critical piece of the puzzle. Um, I think that adding another layer of something like brain spotting or an eMDR, which is more commonly known, um, in the United States, um, it's it's just another access point. Um, that doesn't it's not retraumatizing. Um, because you're not talking about it, really. You're just working around it. And and that's one of the things I love about it. And I incorporated a lot into my, my one on one coaching. I love that it goes back to the fact that we can move through stuff with What? Starting with embodiment. Yeah. Start there. Allow the body to do the work, and then you don't have to talk about it if you don't need to. Yeah. Love it, I love that. Sharon, thank you so much for being on here and sharing your Jill of many trades. And and we're going to have another episode. Awesome. Yeah, it was great. It was great chatting. Thanks for listening to spirit of an athlete podcast. If you're struggling with your own gut issues and want more direction, you can get an initial body scan from Amanda at Body Whisper Healing Comm. In 20 minutes, you can find out what's wrong. Get clarity. Map the path forward. You get on track to get back in your game. 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