From Heartbreak to Healing: NCAA D1 Champion Kate Conwell's Journey Beyond Betrayal

In this episode of "Spirit of an Athlete," host Amanda Smith interviews Kate Conwell, an NCAA Division I National Champion Pole Vaulter and two-time Olympic Trials entrant. Kate shares her journey from elite athletics to founding Journey Beyond Betrayal, her business helping women heal from marital infidelity. The discussion covers the mindset required for pole vaulting, the challenges of being married to another athlete, and the emotional toll of discovering her husband's betrayal. Kate emphasizes the importance of resilience, teamwork, and community support in overcoming personal challenges, drawing parallels between her athletic experiences and her healing process.

Kate Conwell is the dynamic force behind Journey Beyond Betrayal, a transformative online community and coaching program dedicated to guiding women through the aftermath of infidelity. As the founder, Kate blends her professional expertise as a Certified Mental Health Coach and Kingdom Coach with the profound lessons learned from her own journey. Drawing from her experience as an NCAA Champion and her resilience in overcoming the pain of betrayal, she helps women develop a champion's mindset, and rediscover their God-given worth amidst heartbreak.

Get in touch with Kate: kate@journeybeyondbetrayal.com Free Resources: https://www.journeybeyondbetrayal.com/help IG: @journeybeyondbetrayal https://www.instagram.com/journeybeyondbetrayal/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/JourneyBeyondBetrayal

In this Episode: 

• [00:00:45] Kate Conwell's athletic background as an NCAA Division I National Champion pole vaulter and Olympic Trials entrant.
• [00:05:30] The mindset and mental preparation required for pole vaulting, including overcoming fear and building self-confidence.
• [00:12:15] The challenges of being married to another athlete and the dynamics of their relationship.
• [00:18:40] The impact of betrayal in Kate's marriage, including her husband's infidelity and the emotional fallout.
• [00:25:50] The healing process following betrayal, including accountability and commitment from both partners.
• [00:32:10] The importance of community and support for women facing similar challenges in their relationships.
• [00:38:45] The role of personal growth and resilience derived from athletic experiences in navigating personal crises.
• [00:45:20] The significance of faith in Kate's journey and its influence on her marriage and healing process.
• [00:51:55] The transition from athlete to coach, focusing on helping women rebuild their lives after betrayal.
• [00:58:30] Encouragement for listeners to seek help, define their vision for the future, and find support in their healing journeys.

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Website: Body Whisper Healing
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LinkedIn: Amanda (Ritchie) Smith

Take the Gutsy Chick Quiz to find out how your athletic mindset might be holding you back from healing your chronic health issue: https://gutsychickquiz.com

Transcript

0:20

Welcome back to another episode of spirit of an athlete. I'm your host Amanda Smith, creator of the Gutsy Chick quiz at Gutsy Chick Quiz. Com it's a fun quiz for female athletes who are experiencing mysterious health issues that want to know why. That quiz will help you better understand how your athleticism may or may not be helping you with your health issues. On this episode, I invited Kate Conwell, who is Division one national champion pole vaulter. Also, I learned on the episode that she went to the Olympic trials twice. You have to be a certain level of an athlete and have a certain mindset to be able to do that, and that is what helped her in her business journey beyond betrayal. She now helps women when their husbands or partners have betrayed them in their marriage. You'll learn more about her story in this episode, as well as how she works with those women. Enjoy! Kate Cornwell, thank you so much for joining me on spirit of an athlete and sharing how you do what you do and why you do what you do, and of course, what kind of an athlete you were. I'm so excited to be here. Thanks so much for having me. Absolutely. We had so much fun in the pre-interview as well as our warm up here. So I am so excited for this one because it's it's a topic that we don't talk about that much. Period. Not just on this show, but but at all. People kind of keep this close to their heart, close to themselves. So let's start off with where did you and your husband meet? Huh? Well, we were both members of the University of Washington track and field program, so I was a pole vaulter at U-dub. He was a discus thrower. He also played football for the University of Washington for a few years. So we met towards the end of track season on the track bus, coming home from a meet against our rival Washington State. And, um, we he put his number in my phone and we, um, you know, over time, uh, over the course of college. And then we got married, um, after an on and off relationship throughout college, we got married a year after he graduated from U-dub. Hey, you were not my first track and field athlete, but you are my first pole vaulter. Yeah. Okay. Well, alone. Yeah. Okay. Like, I was just at a retreat this last weekend, and we couldn't stop talking about the pole vaulter at the Olympics. Whose member hit the pole on the way. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Poor Frenchman. And then. Yet so lucky. When it comes to pole vaulting, you have to be abundantly aware of where that the the pole is at the one that you're holding. But then also the thing that you're launching yourself over. What are some of the things that go through your head as you are putting yourself in that position to launch and then, of course, fly? Uh, well, you have to be a little bit crazy. So there's that. Um you know, you have to be fearless, so you really have to. When you're at the back of the runway about to do that, you really have to believe, like, I can do this, right? And I'm going to do this and I and I have what it takes. And so when you do it though, it's, I mean, it's the best feeling once you're up and over and you're falling back towards that and you know that the it's called the crossbar is the bar that you're going over. Um, and you're like, you're falling. That's like the best feeling ever. Like, oh, I made it, you know, and you'll even see like, people celebrating in the air because you're like, I did, you know, I did it. And so there's a lot of just self-confidence and that you you cannot be afraid. You cannot go down that runway afraid of what's going to happen when you jump off the ground or it's not going to go well. Do you? So I know for me, when I'm when I'm doing a power sport and pole vaulting is definitely a power sport. Uh, I hold my breath for a certain period of that motion. I also, it's not a blackout, but it's what I call the white zone. You put yourself into the moment, and that's the only thing that you could possibly think about. At what point does that click in for you? I think probably within the last like 2 to 3 steps of the the approach. So most vaulters that are at the elite level are taking maybe 8 or 9 strides. And so in those last 2 to 3 strides, if you're not focused on just what's in front of you, you're not only just I mean, it's going to get dangerous. Not just, uh, it's not just beneficial. It's kind of it's kind of required that you're doing that. Right. Okay. What's the thing that the pole has to fit into that little itty bitty square? What does that called? The the box at the end where the pole goes into. Yeah it's called the box. The box. Okay. What the hell happens if you miss the box? Well, it's hard because I mean, it it it kind of starts wider and gets narrower, but it can happen. Uh, especially more for beginners. It's going to happen. Not, you know, not at a high level. And I mean, you're going to lose all your forward momentum because that box is designed to help you keep your forward momentum going. So if you miss it, you're probably going to come back, you know, towards where you came from. Yeah. You go back towards the track instead of onto the pit. If you're lucky, you maybe you'll fall onto the side of the, you know, the mats come out now, the mats come out really far. So there's a lot of safety that's been developed over the last, you know, 20 or 30 years that make it a little bit, a little bit less crazy, a little bit more safe than it was. You know, when it first started, they were landing on like, bark dust, I think. So I'm not sure I ever would have picked it up if that was what was happening. You know, even this isn't a sport that you see very often that's offered at the high school level just because one the equipment and two, the, the, the dangerousness of it of all of the track and field, uh, events. It's this and hammer that seemed like the most dangerous. And then high jumps got it's it's wonkiness. Oh then there's javelin. Yeah. I mean the throwing sports if you're the judge or idiot in the middle of the field and. Yeah, that that could be dangerous. Uh, I could see where also like drawing back the javelin. You could poke yourself. I guess that's an option, but yeah, that's another one that you don't see very often in high schools because of the dangerousness. But shotput and discus, you're going to see those, right? Yeah. Because people understand those. It's a big thing. So just the the cost, I would say, is a limiting factor as much as it as much as anything else, because the whole pole vault setup is probably the most expensive piece of a track team, and then every pole as well. And you can't just have a pole for like a whole team. Like you could have a shot put and multiple people could share it, but you have depending on your size, there is an ideal pole for you. And so there's, you know, length difference, weight difference, um, as far as how much weight they can hold. So then it becomes very expensive for a high school to outfit a team, right? 1 or 2 athletes I could see. But if you had multiple pole vaulters, yeah, that gets really expensive. Yeah, the setup is pretty much the same as the high jump though, except really, really tall poles. And uh, and a lot more pads. So yes, in case thankfully. Sideways backwards and not in the direction over the top of the pole. Yeah. When did you pick this sport up? I picked it up when I was a freshman in high school. And at that point, I'm not going to tell you exactly how old I am, but it was relatively new for women like it was before it had been in the Olympics. So 2000 was the very first time that pole vault was in the Olympics for women. And I, I picked it up before that. So Oregon, which is where I grew up, was one of the first states to allow girls to pole vault. And so I was kind of in that beginning, like starting phase of we're getting pulled out going for girls. And a lot of states didn't even offer it. So I was lucky I was in Oregon. I'm rolling my eyes over here because I keep hearing things like this. Like, oh, you know, I was at the forefront. So softball didn't end up in the Olympics until 1996. I was playing softball starting in 1980 something I don't remember. 1986 maybe so ten years before it ended up in the Olympics. And I was like, I'm going to be an Olympian before it was even in the Olympics. Yeah. Did you ever aspire to be an Olympian? Of course, of course, yeah. I competed at the trials twice. Once in college, once out of college. And so obviously the goal was to make the Olympic team. But, uh, sadly, I did not make the Olympic team. Yeah, but to be able to even say that you went to trials is in and of itself, like that just screams, I'm an elite athlete. I know, and I recognize that now as, as an adult. Like, I mean, not that I wasn't an adult when I was there, young adult, but when that's the goal, right? You're like, well, then of course I'm here. And now you're like, oh my gosh, there's only 24 people in the entire country that can even compete at the Olympic trials. I got to be one of them twice, you know, and, um, so I recognize some of those accomplishments that I have as now. More for what they are than I did at the time, because you're like, oh, well, you're an NCAA champion. Yeah. But that was my goal. So, you know, of course, like and now I'm like, oh, there's only been, you know, a handful now because you know of NCAA champions for the women. And I get to be one of them. Yeah. That's huge I'm honored to have you on the show. I'm honored to be here. Yay! Okay, so track is one of those few sports I really I'm, like, racking my brain going, is there any other sport where you actually get to ride on the bus with the boys? I mean, I don't know. I do that because it and not even every college travels their men and women together. But we do. We did. Yeah. Well so it saves money. There's always that. Uh, yes Yeah, maybe swimming. Maybe. Might be another one. Swimming and diving. Yeah. That that could be another one. That's probably. I'm trying to think of any others as well I don't and practice together you know like. Yeah exactly. Which I like as a, as a junior high and high school or that's when I did track and I was, I was just telling friends this the other day, I was um shotput shotput discus, high jump, long jump, triple jump, 4x4. Uh, I tried to hurdle once. It was hilarious. Uh, I did, I did because I was one of those natural athletes who could just do things. Yes. And, uh, my least favorite was high jump, because I landed on the bar so many times on my back. It sucked. Yes. Uh, and I long jump was the most brutal on my knees. Uh. But shot and disc were my jam because all the other sports I played were throwing sports. So it was just like, duh. Yeah. Uh, but we got to ride the bus with the boys. And I don't know that I've ever shared like I was. I was so boy crazy starting at first grade. So, like, to be able to ride the bus with the boys was such a treat. And so. Uh. Like, I loved I loved the weight room my entire life because I. Could be around you. Exactly. I was around the boys. Yeah. So you and your husband met on the bus? Yeah. Yes. And then got married. And then what? And then what? Yes. You know, and let me just tell a quick story, because it's kind of funny. He like, as a football player, he would tell you he saw me before I saw him, because the voters were the only people allowed inside of the indoor training facility when the football team was there. So he's like, here's these girls, you know, we wear spandex wearing like short spandex and sports bras. I saw you over there and just thought you were, like, way out of my league. Um, he's like of course, 150 other boys are also looking at the the three girls that are over there in their spandex too. So um, but yeah, so he, he did get up the courage to talk to me on the track bus. And then we did. We got married and, uh, as two collegiate athletes, professional athletes were obviously very driven, very focused, very strong willed. So we had our work cut out for us in our marriage as, um, and, you know, there's not a lot of resources. We didn't dig into resources that would have helped us be successful. So we we were, you know, needed to learn a lot. And, um, I wouldn't say we had, like, a very happy marriage, but I had heard marriage is hard, right? So I'm like, well, it's hard. It's just supposed to be hard. Um, this is what it is. It's really hard. And then five years into our marriage, I discovered I picked up his phone one day in a job that we shared to just check if there was anything I needed to see, and what I saw was messages between him and another woman that that one very unexpected. Very painful. Um, confronted him about it and out came, um, over the course of, like, two weeks, kind of a web of lies that had been going on for our entire marriage from even before we were married. And so while yes, marriage is hard, there were some things that were uncovered that made those first five years way more difficult than they needed to be. Yeah. Okay, let's unpack this a little. So you're both athletes, I'm guessing before you guys Jump down that path. You both had dated other people beforehand. Amen. Okay. All right. So you knew what getting into relationship was like, and you knew that being in those first couple of years or easy peasy. Like the honeymoon phase, right? How long did you guys date before you got married? So we like we went we met at the end of freshman year. We dated consistently for two years. And like we did have like I would say, our honeymoon phase was that first year to year and a half. And then it got a little bit like I'm like, okay, like I think I could marry you. And I'm wanting to make the relationship more serious. And he was like, I'm in college. Like, I want to have fun, you know? And and so we ended up breaking up after two years of dating. And then it was kind of like this on and off, probably. I mean, not probably. it was a very unhealthy dynamic. Right. And that's where the problem of being too athletes wasn't, wasn't great either, because people are like, oh, you break up and then you like, especially on a big college like the University of Washington, like you can just move on. Well, not when you're seeing that person day in and day out, like I had people tell me like, well, you need to create space from him. I'm like, I, I can't like, I, I mean, I can try not to talk to him, but I'm like, I still love him and there he is. And like, you know. And so there was on like, you know, this dynamic of like seeing each other all the time. And he would say he always knew he wanted to marry me. He just wasn't ready to make the commitment. And so he would come back and I would say, you know, and there's this going on until, um, that went kind of on and off, I would say I dated other people. He didn't really date other people, but he was in college. So you can read between the lines, um, and and then finally he was like, I was dating someone. And he was like, okay, I don't like this. Like, I, I, I want to date you and pursued me a little bit more. But this was now towards the end of college for him. I was already out of college and and so I was like, okay, this is it. Like either now we're done with college and so we're either in and we're in it for like, like this is it or we're done. Like this is the last opportunity. Um, I'm not going to go back and forth with you now that I can create space like and so I, we, I gave him one more chance and he, you know obviously no, no. You know, well that's what that was 20 years ago. Almost so. Oh okay. So you found out that he was cheating on you, and you found out that there was even more of a backstory? Yes How did you guys work through that? Because obviously you're still married. So yes, in world did you work through that? What did the both of you have to do in order to repair? Yes. And I will say, with any situation like this, there's always a backstory. There's always it's not just as simple as the movies make it look like, oh, we weren't he wasn't happy, so he was cheating. It's like his his addiction and his issues stem to before we are even married. So like the you know, cheating was even when we were engaged and then the pornography addiction and then the cheating while we were married. And so he had not liked that. He knew it was wrong and he didn't want to continue in that behavior. He just couldn't stop because for him, there was an addiction component to what was happening. And so when I discovered it, he jumped into like doing whatever he needed to. To now finally be rid of this behavior and and this. He's like, okay, I've tried to to stop this on my own. Now I'm going to I have to I'm going to lose my family. I may have already lost my family, but now I'm not. I, I have to stop doing this. And so he really dove into that and like, I'm going to do whatever it takes to repair our marriage, to restore our family and to just restore myself. And then you come to to me and I'm like, totally. I'm I'm heartbroken, obviously, and that this is the worst pain I've ever walked through. It's the hardest thing I've ever been through. Even as an athlete. I've done a lot of hard things. But the healing from this kind of betrayal and pain is still the hardest thing I think I've done. And and so after a period of like mourning and grieving and not really knowing what I wanted to do about our marriage, I got to the point where I was like, I'm clearly broken and I need to heal for myself, because whether I'm in this marriage or I'm in another relationship, I'm already a mom. We have a one year old at this point. I can't just sit here and wallow in my pain or be like, I don't want to be a victim to this for the rest of my life. Like so. I then pursued my own healing, like, what do I need to do? And and this is where now I look back and recognize how much being an athlete played a role in my healing because I was like, I'm like, I'm. I know what I want, like I want healing and what am I going to do to get there? What do I need to get there? How do I get there? Like, what are the steps I need to take? What knowledge do I need? What tools do I need to get? And I wouldn't say that I was like consciously doing this. It was just all that experience as an athlete of like how you accomplish what you want. Um, and so that was kind of the path I took was like, I'm going to pursue my healing. And then ultimately then we both, like, I could make the decision, I'm willing to give you another shot. And we had to do the healing it took for our marriage. But again, both of us coming in, we are both goal oriented. We know how to work for what we want, and we're willing to do the hard thing. And so we both brought that mentality of like that had allowed us to be successful as athletes into this. Like, I like to be able to do hard things and to do things you don't want to do and and to like, deal with, like such. This was I mean, this is way more heartbreaking than losing any game, right? But like those kind of skills that I had being an athlete my whole life, I now recognize served me so well in how I approached the healing and how he approached the healing, too. Because it's hard. It's so hard and not everyone comes into it the same, equipped with the same mentality or tools or experience that I have. And so that was really what allowed us to get through it. Yeah. The, the being an athlete and having a, an an elite athletes mindset. And I really feel like I have to highlight that because there are athletes and then there are elite athletes, and elite athletes have had to do so much mindset work in order to be at the place that they're at. And it can be the limiting factor, especially when it comes to becoming an Olympian. Uh, so what was if you could narrow it down to one mindset skill? What was the one mindset skill that got you to the point where you said, okay, I'm ready to heal this with us, not myself, but with us? That's a that's a team sport. That's a team sport. And I didn't really do team sports. Um, I think like having a vision for what I wanted inside of my life. And we like I said, we had a kid, so my answer may have been different if we didn't already have a kid. But knowing that I wanted our child to be raised by both of his like that was my goal. When I really wanted to be a mom, I wanted to have a family. So my heart's desire was for my children to be raised by both parents together. And so just knowing that that was my vision and for my child, not just for myself, which that is like the team. I mean, that's a team mentality. I would say. I guess, um, that I think having that vision of what I wanted for us and knowing like, okay, like the only way to do that is with my husband. And so how can we do that? I think was a huge driving factor for me. And Recognizing. Honestly, I had learned how often this happened. So for me, I'm like, there's not like I could go get married to someone else, but really, it could happen again anyways. So I do think I have a better opportunity to build something stronger inside of my own marriage than I would trying to go rebuild with something else based off of how my husband was responding. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, the the simple fact that he said, I'm going to fix this, right? I know this is a problem for me and I'm going to fix it. If he if he hadn't gone there, obviously I think this story would be completely different. And for sure he would have been on a completely different path. But yes. The simple fact that he said that was that that's where Grace comes into this, right? And faith that that he's going to get to the other side. Oh yeah. He got to the other side. Right. Oh for sure. Yes. Yeah, he absolutely did. I mean, can you imagine being on a team with someone who was like, well, I don't know, like I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I might try like, I'm gonna, you know, but if I, if I decide I don't want to do this, I'm just gonna, like, walk. I'll walk off the field like you. You would not. How secure would you feel with that as your teammate versus like, I had a teammate who was like, I'm gonna do whatever it takes. Like, I'm in it. I'm here. I'm willing to do the hard work. And as a team athlete, you know, I mean, you know the difference. Yes, absolutely. That's that it's it's integral to the dynamics of the entire team. The, the you're only as strong as your weakest link. That is very true in a team dynamic. Um, and if your weakest link continues to break. Yes. Your team's gonna suck. Yeah. Yes. Right. And that's going to be frustrating in a in a completely different realm. Um, okay So how old were your kids? Or your. Your youngest or your oldest? Yeah. Uh, how old was that child when you guys got to the point of we're repairing this? So the oldest was maybe just over a year, and the youngest was conceived in that process. In the process. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So interesting. Was that on purpose or on accident? It was on. I don't want to say that it was the greatest blessing. Um, his name is Jackson, and it is spelled with an X, which means um, God is gracious. And so it was he we call it. You know, we wanted something like God Redeems or something like that, but that was the closest we could come up with. So he was not an intentional. He was a passion child. We'll call him that. An act of passion. Yes, I love that. Yeah. An act of repair. Yes. Okay. Uh, now you're bringing up some other stuff that I've. I have to ask. When you guys got married, did you get married in a religious sect? So we both come from a Christian faith. I became a Christian in college. He was raised in a Christian household. His dad married us. His dad was a pastor. So we had the foundation of faith that guided us through our marriage, and I think was pivotal also for us to reconcile. That was a huge piece of how we were able to do it. Exactly. Yeah. That's, um, was his dad the one who who did the premarital coaching? No, no, he did, at least with the men Someone else for that. Yeah. So he's like a former assistant pastor did ours. And we also went through some premarital counseling at our own church. But I don't know, it just didn't I mean, not that we didn't try, right? It just wasn't I don't think it equipped us for what we were walking into. And then I think, like I shared at the beginning, this concept of like, marriage is hard. We were in a group with other married couples, and I mean, I can still remember the one woman saying like, oh yeah, your first year. That's when it's hard, you know? And and it's like, there is hard parts, but we don't talk enough about what, what like should be hard and what really is unhealthy or is maybe a little bit too hard and you need to get some help. And so I think I kind of was just like, well, this is how it is. It's hard. And this is just what I signed up for. And, you know, like, I do a lot of things, I can do hard things. I'm not going to give up like, I, I wanted it to be better. And I thought if I tried and I worked at it, it could get better. And one thing I learned through the whole this whole process, which is where it differs the athlete mentality difference as an athlete, as an individual athlete. Like I can control somewhat like the you know, the outcome because it's up to me how much effort I put in. Now, obviously I'm not in total control. I don't have control of my teammates or like the competitors, but like, I could not control my husband's effort or his commitment to our marriage. And that was really hard because I grew up thinking I can do whatever I set my mind to. And that only works when it's you. It doesn't work when it's a marriage or a team. Yeah, team dynamics shift everything completely and totally. I as an athlete, I went from team sports into adulthood. I went into individual sports because I do I have I have full control of whatever, I can control, which ultimately is my effort and my attitude. Yes. Right. I mean. That's it. I can't control the environment. I can't control the other people who are going to be around me no matter what, because every sport has other people, no matter what. Yes. Yeah, yeah, that's a fun lesson that, uh, that you got to learn in this was the I. I can't control it. I can try as hard as I, as I possibly can and. Yes. Yeah, it's it's. Free and so challenging. Like. Yes. Abso friggin lutely. That's what it's like to be on a team. Uh, it's. Yes. Uh, looking at it from a, from the perspective of team in this instance because, you know, we're talking sports is fabulous. But then when you look at it from a marriage like this is people's lives intertwined. That shift in, in um, mentality has to be there as well. Having others guide you was one of the keys hearing like there's a certain point where you have to get help. Is this what you help people with now, having a better understanding of where they're at in their marriage and when it's time to actually get some help? Um, I, I help when they already it's very obvious that they need help. So now I support women whose husbands have been unfaithful and they recognize, like, I can't do this on my own. I need help to heal. And so I've used the my experience now to transition into helping other women walk through it with the knowledge and experience and really the mindset that I think I brought into my own healing is really uncommon for women, but something I just so like, I so desire for women to really just believe in themselves and, um, and, and have the confidence that I think allowed me to walk through it so much better. And so my desire is that, like as women walk through this, they actually come out the other side, like stronger and and not just healed but transformed because of what happened to them. So I'm not on the front side. I'm on the it's already blown to pieces and it's very obvious you need help. I feel like part of your marketing should be for those people who are going, I don't know if if I, I need to repair or if this is just a point where I have to push through. That way you can look them. Every woman gets to decide that right in this situation and it and it's up to you and and it's partly up to what your husband is doing. And I don't make that decision for anyone. I think you get to decide what you're willing to put up with and for how long and what your vision is. I knew what mine was, but I have other women decide. Determine what? What is your vision for the other side of this, and how are we going to get there for you, knowing you don't get to control him, but you do get to make choices for yourself? Yeah, definitely. Do you notice that the people you work with are mostly athletes or were athletes at some point? Know? Interesting. I would love you to. I would love to like work with another athlete, but so far I haven't had any, at least not high level athletes. Although, I mean, it happens to everyone, so nobody is immune to this. Unfortunately. Yes. Truth. Truth Yeah, I feel like, uh, I have I have a story to share with you off air. Okay. That I don't feel comfortable sharing on air. And then I feel like this is something that a lot of women deal with is like, these are these are hard things to bring out in conversation. It's it's something that we deal with silently. Yes. And just like I'm saying to you right now, like, yeah, off air. I would love to to chat with you about my experience, but on air? No way. So applaud you for being courageous enough to have these conversations and to be the one supporting other women who are going through it. Because again, we don't. We tend to not have that in society. We might have it in faith. We might have it in in a church setting, in a religious setting, but outside of a religious setting. I don't know where that exists. Sex therapists potentially. Or a therapist, obviously. Uh, but when it comes to relating to other women who have been there and have experienced what you've experienced, yeah, that's few and far between. So thank you for the work that you do. Oh thank you. I mean, it really is brings me so much joy and I and the community and the coaching that I provide, that's the heart of it is like, don't do this alone. There are other people that can understand what you're going through. You don't have to walk this journey by yourself. We're not intended to do that. But the flip side is like a lot of people won't talk about it with anyone. So how do you how do you reach those people that need to hear this? So thank you for having me because hope, you know, I don't I don't I hope that nobody listening needs what I'm offering. But if they do or they know someone that does, you know, then there are resources like this available. And oftentimes when you're in the situation, you know, you think, oh, I'm an athlete, I need a coach. Like I'm just going to search for a there are coaches that walk you through this to walk you through healing after an affair. And much the same way an athletic coach can help you because they see things from the outside. They have knowledge and tools and information that you don't have access to. That's the way I work too. I love that, I absolutely love that. Kate, where can people find you on the internet so that they can reach out and have these deeper conversations with you? Mostly everywhere. I'm at Journey Beyond Betrayal. So Instagram at Journey Beyond Betrayal online journey beyond betrayal. Com Facebook same thing. Those are the three main places that you can find me. Excellent. We will make sure that everybody can find that in the show notes. Okay. It's been such an honor. One to have a national champion slash Olympic trials athlete. Pole vaulter from Washington. Yes. Thank you so unbelievably much. Thank you for having me.